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Getting to -6 dB before mastering I've been reading that you should have your project, the loudest part, I suppose, peak at a max of -6 dB before you start mastering (using Ozone). Now I already mixed all my projects and with the aid of Boost 11 I usually made them peak at -0,3 to -0,5 or something like that. Now if I disable Boost 11 the volume peaks at a lower level, but still way higher then -6 dB. Now I wonder. Can I simply slide down the volume of the master bus so the project peaks at -6 dB and then start using Ozone. Or am I missing something obvious and should the master bus stay at zero and should I lower each and every tracks output with the same amount so the overall volume peaks at -6 dB. If you know what I mean?
I fooled around a bit with Ozone and although I can easily get my tracks to max out (the loudest parts of the songs) at -0,3 dB (not too squashed of course) there still are huge differences between various songs as far as overal volume is concerned. I sort of expected that if every song peaks at -0,3 with moderate settings, they all would sound similar when it comes to 'loudness'.
But they don't. I can use that Ozone limiter and make the songs almost twice as loud (well, so it feels, I am exaggerating a bit) without making it sound (too) awful so I still have to listen to them all one by one and compare them.
BTW I tried some Ozone presets and my goodness, even though a lot of presets sound pretty good out of the box, they sometimes sound COMPLETELY different.! After switching between a few presets I already can't figure out anymore which one sounds 'good' because they all do in their own way. Excellent thread: +1 to mixing below -3 dBs. Or just do the opposite, as my ME, Danny Danzi, validates for me, iirc. Freeing you to mix intuitively. Which is what I do before sending him my pre-master.
Or if I'm mastering myself with Ozone and/or the Slate Limiter. 1) I adjust the input gain on the master buss (not Ozone's input level) to make sure the loudest peak is at -3 dbs (or whatever numbers you prefer down to -6dbs. I usually turn it down to precisely -3dbs.
2) Make sure nothing clips the master buss or other busses. 3) Do not try to 'group-lower' output volumes of tracks that you carefully mixed to balanced perfection. Even allow some tiny clipping on tracks (random snare and kick peaks for example). If your ears hear no distortion, you are OK to comp/limit those tracks. Or just use the imput gain on the master buss to comp them. Even with automation envelopes to comp manually 4) Lower levels of tracks you feel that interfere with grooves, chords, melodies, etc.
The master-buss input gain in Sonar accurately adjusts all output track volume energies, proportionately, so you are not forced to tweak tracks down for hours. Again, the Input level control in Ozone is probably a No-No. It probably deals with volume group-volume-levels vs. Proportionate gain-energy reductions. I hope Danny chimes since I too share your burden and may be wrong. (I don't have the discipline to mix things below -3 dBs. Especially those random kicks.).
I could indeed use the input gain on the master bus to set each project to a max of -6 dB? That was what I was hoping for! About that Fabfilter Pro-L: I see they talk about a white RMS-line: am I (slightly) right when I say that if you use that Fabfilter Pro-L and make sure that each project has about the same RMS level, that each project will sound about just as 'loud'.? My MAIN problem is getting the various track at the same overall level, which is made more complicated by the fact that almost all songs have soft parts combined with loud parts: there are only one or two songs that have the same volume from start to finish. If I make sure the loudest part of each song shows the same RMS, will that make my songs sound at the same volume all over the cd.? I am looking for an easy way to get my tracks on the same level and maybe this RMS line in Fabfilter Pro-L might be what I have been looking for.?
Hellogoodbye Ok, so. I could indeed use the input gain on the master bus to set each project to a max of -6 dB? That was what I was hoping for! About that Fabfilter Pro-L: I see they talk about a white RMS-line: am I (slightly) right when I say that if you use that Fabfilter Pro-L and make sure that each project has about the same RMS level, that each project will sound about just as 'loud'.?
My MAIN problem is getting the various track at the same overall level, which is made more complicated by the fact that almost all songs have soft parts combined with loud parts: there are only one or two songs that have the same volume from start to finish. If I make sure the loudest part of each song shows the same RMS, will that make my songs sound at the same volume all over the cd.?
I am looking for an easy way to get my tracks on the same level and maybe this RMS line in Fabfilter Pro-L might be what I have been looking for.? Jeff has better recording tips, like recording at -14 dBs RMS for tracks and/or busses.
Everyone's tendency is to get things loud from the start, lest they lose their vibe or something. That may be where I should increase the volume on the monitors instead. But yes, the buss/master-buss input gain supposedly redeems those excess gain energies. Again, I hope Jeff or Danny chimes here.
Here's how I work things. Many people have their own way of recording and what they consider good input signals.
I like -6dB myself. It just works the best for me no matter if I record in 16 or 24 bit. From there, as you mix your material.leave your master bus wave form preview on. See where you may be getting peaks. When you see them, find the source as to why they are happening.
You may need to automate a volume, you may need more compression or you may need to just adjust your attack time on your compressor so that it reacts differently. If the peak is so nasty that you can't control it, try to recut the part if you can. Never try to fix things in the mix. All that does is waste time. Get the best sounds you can before you even hit the record button.
Peaks in a mix can kill your quality. They can come from lots of things. Excessive low end pumping, transients on kicks, snares, high gain guitar whoomfing, piercing high end on instruments, hi-hats, lack of compression, transient designer over-use, improper eq curves, lack of automation (always try to automate and eq a peak before you try to compress it in attempt to fix it) the list goes on and on. When I'm done recording and start to mix, all my faders are turned down to infinity.which means all the way down to nothing.
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Master bus at 0dB and I mix my song. At the end when I'm happy with my mix, I clear my meters and play the song from the beginning to the end and see what my peak is on my master bus. My personal target area is -3dB. I wish I knew.I just ended up that way and have been doing it for years.
I had a project of mine mixed by Bob Katz in 2004 and his instructions to me were 'make sure your mixes are sent to me at -3dB' and I sort of felt good about that because I'd always done it that way. I can't remember how or why I did it though.
Never use a preset in a program as is on your material. Some of them can be good starting points, but you have to know what each thing does before you allow it to be on your mix. Just because something may say 'hard rock master' and your tune is hard rock, doesn't mean it will work. Compression, limiting and eq settings will always need to be adjusted. Remember, when they created that preset, your material wasn't what they made it from.:) Watch reverbs that are supplied in mastering programs. 9 out of 10 times this is never needed and will only mess up the mix. The only time you reach for something like this is when a mix may be so dry, it just sounds lifeless.
I have of course, had some pretty rough mixes from clients that had so much noise going on from analog gear, that I had to remove the noise. This in turn forced me to cut off some of the music a bit earlier than it should have been. In this instance, a small room verb can be applied so it doesn't cut off dead. But it's rare for me to use a verb on a master because to me, it just sounds bad. Try your best to stay away from that. Watch your limiting.
If the crack in your snare drum is gone when you compare it to your unmastered file, limiting is most likley the culprit and you over-did it. Install packages with rpm. Anyway, just some bits and pieces of things to watch and listen for.
Always adjust your levels within your tracks and try your best not to touch the master bus. If you find you have to run your track super high and still fall short of a good -3dB peak level.you're simply recording too low from the start. With me recording at -6dB on all my stuff, most of my tracks end up at about -7dB to -10dB while mixing.
I'm fine with that and have plenty of horsepower to go up if I need to. Just watch those peaks.they are the death of people. Good luck.hope this helps.:) -Danny. Is the art of controlling peaks. I mean, honestly, if everybody would forget about 'commercial levels', you could use compressors and limiters only for color.
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And record with peaks on the master buss around -18 to -12, and be DONE WITH IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! LOL i'm not saying eq doesnt count, or panning, or level or effects or any of that. I'm just saying that this whole conversation is driven by the perceived NEED to have loud mixes. This decision effects everything. You can't get an even mix, if you have any dynamics that are not in control. How GOOD you are at controlling peaks.
It takes a long time, and a lot of mixing, to recognize exactly what is peaking, and why. But in the meantime, using tools like Waves PAZ analyzer, SPAN and HarBal, can surely shorten the learning curve. But levels are not as important as the MIX. And the MIX, will often dictate that you don't get as loud of a final product as you wanted, because you were not willing to crush or chop something to the point it needed to be to sit flat in the mix. The louder your final product is, the LESS dynamic it is.
Then, you are completely tied to your arrangment for dynamics. And that's really not dynamics at all. That's why, if you are using a Mastering engineer, levels are almost irrelevent, when recording in 24 bit. You can go as low as you dare, and a good mastering engineer will still be able to bring the levels up, without ruining the mix.as far as peaks and your monitoring in the box, your levels are suspect.
I doubt the meters give totally accurate peak information, better to err on the side of conservatism. Good discussion, but a lot of over-thinking going on. If your master bus is a little hot, throw on Ozone and turn down its Input Gain slider.
It's that simple. Put Boost-11 back in the box with the TinkerToys and Legos. It has some usefulness as a special effect, but it has no place on the master bus. Use the Ozone presets as a learning aid; that's all they're good for.
Always start from scratch with Ozone, remembering the philosophy of 'less is more'. FabFilter Pro-L is a great limiter. But you don't need it. Stick to Ozone until you've exhausted what it can do for you.